We killed Bin Laden! f*** your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

[GeminiX]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

What I mean is, followers of almost every religion are will turn a blind eye to the lunatics in their midst.

It's hard to stand up for what is right, noone is perfect but many people do, and I have always liked the message behind the following quote:

''The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.''

Absolutely agree with that principle.

It's very easy for anyone to snipe away on the sidelines and criticize the actions of others, it's another thing entirely to step up and try to make a difference.

Look at this very thread for example, full of people slating America's foreign policy yet I've not seen any of them actually have any better ideas about how they would look out for the well being of the population of their country. Also all this sniping is done using the trappings of a Western civilisation (computers, the internet, freedom of speech etc.).

See what I did there, back on topic with that segue

 

[GeminiX]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, but there's one major disparity between certain Islamic countries and western countries, in that the governments are not supporting the harm or perpetrating it! IE: You can call the police to help you in such an event in the US, but in Iran, I wouldn't be so sure, in fact, in certain Islamic countries the government may be the ones who actually kill you for it....

Crazy as it sounds, Iran is actually one of the better places to be transsexual; they have terrific surgeons and treatment there. Meanwhile America has this this going on http://www.americanindependent.com/...plan-increased-spending-activity-through-2012.

With respect, you're probably not aware of the conflict in the western world regarding Homosexual and transsexual issues as unless it's a part of your life, it's not on your radar. I'm just trying to point out that there are vile and hateful people in every country.

Going way off topic again though

 

[GeminiX]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

You would be considered a homosexual based on your original physical characteristics by Islam, so in the Islamic countries where homosexuality is a capital offense your life would be in danger. That was my point.....

I'm not sure it does actually, quite a lot of Islamic countries correctly recognise the difference between gender dysphoria and homosexuality. Oddly, America seems to be quite backward when it comes to homosexual rights and transgender and transsexual issues; some of the things I've read from US politicians lately is frankly vile.

Kinda getting way off topic though

Next time threats like this happens to you, tell these Christians Jesus said not to judge one another and they are back sliding and you will pray that they repent unk:

I probably won't be praying any time soon, but I might start a new section of my site to post the hate mail I get. Some of it is kinda entertaining and creative
edit - Though some of it I have to pass straight onto the authorities...

 

[HughJass]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Some of you make it seem like America invaded a peaceful little haven of tolerance where hatred and violence were words used in other lands.

These are a people destined to be at war with someone..be it other countries or daughters that were raped.

Totally agree. These people are only picking America because you are a super power, they are also at war with everyone. Even children playing football in some third world country.

I look forward to when they take on China. Wow, those Chinese will wipe them away.

And we're back to 'they hate us because we're free' again.

 

[HughJass]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

I see no other way as a nation deal with jihadists. The reason is that the Koran inexplicably instructs them to kill the non-believers... That means there is no way we can deal with them through a peaceful political process. The Koran does not tell the jihadists to negotiate with the infidels it says they must kill them.

There is a few people on this thread that don't get this ^^^

Yeah this is just getting really stale now. Some of you guys subscribe to the most myopic narrative when it comes to this issue. That narrative goes something like:

-There are radical muslims attacking America.

-This conflict started on 9/11 and no history before that existed so don't bother mentioning it because we aren't interested anyway

-They are attacking America because they hate freedom (and not because they hate your policies)

-There is no way to stop them other than carrying out endless wars and occupation of muslim countries, regardless of how much data we're shown which says it doesn't work

-The west doesn't commit crimes so don't talk about them and especially don't posit the theory that those crimess could be feeding a cycle of violence between us and the jihadis

-Anyone who strays from this thinking is colluding with the Islamists

 

[GeminiX]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

And we're back to 'they hate us because we're free' again.

I expect the reasons are as varied as there are people who perform acts.

Some people will be activists, some will be jealous, some will be misguided, some will be looking for revenge etc.

 

[Cassin]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

I see no other way as a nation deal with jihadists. The reason is that the Koran inexplicably instructs them to kill the non-believers... That means there is no way we can deal with them through a peaceful political process. The Koran does not tell the jihadists to negotiate with the infidels it says they must kill them.

There is a few people on this thread that don't get this ^^^

Yeah this is just getting really stale now. Some of you guys subscribe to the most myopic narrative when it comes to this issue. That narrative goes something like:

-There are radical muslims attacking America.

-This conflict started on 9/11 and no history before that existed so don't bother mentioning it because we aren't interested anyway

-They are attacking America because they hate freedom (and not because they hate your policies)

-There is no way to stop them other than carrying out endless wars and occupation of muslim countries, regardless of how much data we're shown which says it doesn't work

-The west doesn't commit crimes so don't talk about them and especially don't posit the theory that those crimess could be feeding a cycle of violence between us and the jihadis

-Anyone who strays from this thinking is colluding with the Islamists

Thats quite a jump you've made based on me quoting that. I don't believe any of that. In fact I have made that clear here on this very thread a few times. Try to be more accurate when you're randomly pulling ideas of your ***.

 

[hairrific]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

aussieavodart is convinced that the reason we had 911 is because of the things the usa did. It is the usa that caused 911. It is called back ***-wards thinking.

Sort of like saying that if you put police on the street in a bad part of town, your just making the other side more pissed off and likely to attack the good side of town in protest. So don't put police out on the street.

Ah ha! Cowardly back *** thinking!

 

[HughJass]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Thats quite a jump you've made based on me quoting that.

Not as I see it. You endorsed Harrific's suggestion that there is no means to dealing with terrorism that are peaceful.

 

[HughJass]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

aussieavodart is convinced that the reason we had 911 is because of the things the usa did.

If America's actions in the Middle East prior to 9/11 played no role then please explain why it was America that was attacked and not Brazil. Or Denmark. Or New Zealand.

It is the usa that caused 911.

Actions have repercussions, some of them disasterous. Foreign policy is no exception.

There's a reason why people are told not to stick their hands into certain cages at the zoo.

Sort of like saying that if you put police on the street in a bad part of town, your just making the other side more pissed off and likely to attack the good side of town in protest. So don't put police out on the street.

is this how you see America and it's allies' role in the M.E prior to 9/11? A police officer protecting people?

 

[Cassin]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Thats quite a jump you've made based on me quoting that.

Not as I see it. You endorsed Harrific's suggestion that there is no means to dealing with terrorism that are peaceful.

Quite the opposite actually. However to avoid confusion I should have taken out his first sentence.

That part of the world always has and always will be at war with someone. It will never be at peace with the rest of the world or themselves until its own people decide the never ending wars are over.

So with that in mind I have always felt that everyone needs to leave them alone and let them solve their own problems. If they can evolve as a peaceful people they will. Until then we will buy oil from whoever is standing at the time . Take some of that military money and get onto moving past fossil fuels so no rational country has to deal with that nightmare.

Call me crazy but any culture that kills its daughters for men raping them cannot be rationally dealt with. I am not saying we need to nuke them for such a mindset...just leave them to their own means. Stay out of it.

 

[hairrific]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

I just finished reading Full text: Bin Laden's 'letter to America'
Online document: the full text of Osama bin Laden's "letter to the American people"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

Suffering through reading all his obsessiveness, my brain is spinning trying to figure out and see his reasoning and how to deal with a criminally insane mad man and now, his many followers and sympathizers who are instructed by the koran to either convert the unbelievers to their religion or kill them.


aussieavodart, care to take a stab at it?

 

[Cassin]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

I just finished reading Full text: Bin Laden's 'letter to America'
Online document: the full text of Osama bin Laden's "letter to the American people"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

Suffering through reading all his obsessiveness, my brain is spinning trying to figure out and see his reasoning and how to deal with a criminally insane mad man and now, his many followers and sympathizers who are instructed by the koran to either convert the unbelievers to their religion or kill them.


aussieavodart, care to take a stab at it?

It doesn't matter what the US or Wests policy is....They will still call for Jihad against "non believers"

Aussie surely you see that?

 

[s.a.f]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

This thread will run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run and run..... :shakehead:

 

[Ori83]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

yeah, im sorry for posting on it it bumps my topics every 2 and a half min :dunno:

 

[HughJass]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

It's very easy for anyone to snipe away on the sidelines and criticize the actions of others, it's another thing entirely to step up and try to make a difference.

Criticism is where change starts.

Look at this very thread for example, full of people slating America's foreign policy yet I've not seen any of them actually have any better ideas about how they would look out for the well being of the population of their country.

How about not dominating and terrorizing people in other countries for a start?

It's a truly strange attitude to suggest there is no other way to look out for the security of our countries other than to keep doing what we've been doing for the last few decades (bomb, occupy, torture, subjugate).

America had a history of isolationism for a reason- there were people in power who were smart enough to know that meddling in the affairs of other countries bought nothing but trouble.

Also all this sniping is done using the trappings of a Western civilisation (computers, the internet, freedom of speech etc.).

It seems obvious to me that if someone actually values those things they'd take every opportunity to denounce the people who's behaviour ran contrary to it.

You don't think we should allow our politicians to impose their will on other peoples and rob them at them at gun point, do you GeminiX?

 

[HughJass]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

It doesn't matter what the US or Wests policy is....They will still call for Jihad against "non believers"

Aussie surely you see that?

If the jihadists were motivated only by Islam then we would have seen attacks in all secular western countries and not just some of them and we would have seen attacks scattered evenly throughout time. The only countries which have been attacked are those which have fought wars in the middle east, stationed troops in the region, supported Arab dictators and given unconditional support to Israel. The anger towards these countries from muslims is in direct proportion to how involved they are.

It's simply not true to suggest things have always been this way and our policies have no bearing on anti-western sentiment in muslim countries. America never really became the target of hatred of muslims until the 1970's when it became a lot more partisan in the Israel-Palestine conflict.I've already posted a graph a few pages back showing terrorist activity growing directly after the Iraq war, as well as the pentagon study which examined what motivated terrorists and concluded it was occupation from western forces, amoung other things. There was a big academic study a while back which reached the same conclusion:

Professor Robert Pape of the University of Chicago’s Project for Security and Terrorism recently published extensive research which analysed each of the 2,200 cases of suicide bombing that have occurred since 1980. The research builds on Professor Pape’s earlier work published in his 2005 book ‘Dying to Win’.

This new study found:
• Suicide bombings have risen dramatically following the US occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan, from some 300 from 1980 to 2003, to 1,800 from 2004 to 2009.
• Over 90 percent of suicide attacks worldwide are now anti-American.
• Contrary to the belief that these attacks are undertaken by ‘foreigners’, the vast majority are by those local to the region: for example 90% of suicide attacks in Afghanistan have been undertaken by Afghans.
• Suicide attacks are more likely when the ‘social distance’ between occupied and occupier is more pronounced and that religion is not the only factor in determining this as he points to secular groups who have employed suicide bombings such as the LTTE (Hindu) against the Sinhalese (Buddhists)
• Suicide attacks have been a measure of last resort, and employed when all other non-suicide measures have failed

Professor Pape argues that research undertaken by his group demonstrates that the underlying narrative of the War on Terror, that these suicide attacks and 9/11 were a function of Muslim hatred of western values and that democracy was subsequently needed to bring stability to the Muslim world, was fundamentally flawed. His publication suggests: ‘It’s the occupation, stupid’.

The research points to conclusions that have long been claimed by people across the Muslim world, that events since, and indeed prior to, 9/11 cannot be separated from the context in which they occur. Foreign policy hawks have long-suggested that Islamic theology is inherently prone to violence and that the Muslim world’s displeasure with the ascendancy of the west has resulted in the desire to launch attacks on western capitals to return the balance of power and civilisation in their favour, to-redress the anchor moment in the 15th century when the Spanish inquisition started the reversal of Muslim fortunes.

Professor Pape’s debases these views empirically. The study shows there is a correlation between occupation and retaliatory violence in occupied territories as the indigenous populations attempt to remove foreign control: 95% of all 2,200 suicide bombings analysed were in response to foreign occupation.

http://www.newcivilisation.com/index.ph ... ion/151/P0

I find it odd that people can't accept that invading and occupying muslim countries and killing thousands of their civilians in the process while supporting dictators who turn their countries in prison states, couldn't possibly factor in to the hatred muslims feel towards us. Isn't just glaringly obvious the role we are playing in the cycle of violence?

 

[HughJass]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

I just finished reading Full text: Bin Laden's 'letter to America'
Online document: the full text of Osama bin Laden's "letter to the American people"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/nov/24/theobserver

Suffering through reading all his obsessiveness, my brain is spinning trying to figure out and see his reasoning and how to deal with a criminally insane mad man and now, his many followers and sympathizers who are instructed by the koran to either convert the unbelievers to their religion or kill them.


aussieavodart, care to take a stab at it?

I honestly don't know what you are struggling to understand here. It couldn't be any simpler. That article is a list of Bin Laden's motivations. You want to stop the Bin Laden's of this world then you stop doing all of the things on that list.

You can say that doing so constitutes bending over backwards for terrorists, but all of the foreign policy gripes he lists are actually criminal by our own legal definitions which should give us even more reason to stop carrying them out. You do agree with me that starving out an entire population and causing the deaths of a million and a half children is not a good thing to do, don't you? Or that helping a certain country to steal another country's territory doesn't really gel with what we westerners would regard as morally acceptable?

 

[Bryan]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

If the jihadists were motivated only by Islam then we would have seen attacks in all secular western countries and not just some of them and we would have seen attacks scattered evenly throughout time. The only countries which have been attacked are those which have fought wars in the middle east, stationed troops in the region, supported Arab dictators and given unconditional support to Israel. The anger towards these countries from muslims is in direct proportion to how involved they are.

It's simply not true to suggest things have always been this way and our policies have no bearing on anti-western sentiment in muslim countries. America never really became the target of hatred of muslims until the 1970's when it became a lot more partisan in the Israel-Palestine conflict.

My sister (the former US Ambassador) is here in Houston visiting me for a few days, and I just showed her this post of yours. After pointing out to her the last sentence above about the 1970's, she scratched her head and thought about it a bit, agreeing with me that she couldn't see any reason to believe that we became more "partisan" during that period of time. She told me to ask you to give your reasons for believing that!

 

[Cassin]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

It doesn't matter what the US or Wests policy is....They will still call for Jihad against "non believers"

Aussie surely you see that?

If the jihadists were motivated only by Islam then we would have seen attacks in all secular western countries and not just some of them and we would have seen attacks scattered evenly throughout time. The only countries which have been attacked are those which have fought wars in the middle east, stationed troops in the region, supported Arab dictators and given unconditional support to Israel. The anger towards these countries from muslims is in direct proportion to how involved they are.

It's simply not true to suggest things have always been this way and our policies have no bearing on anti-western sentiment in muslim countries. America never really became the target of hatred of muslims until the 1970's when it became a lot more partisan in the Israel-Palestine conflict.I've already posted a graph a few pages back showing terrorist activity growing directly after the Iraq war, as well as the pentagon study which examined what motivated terrorists and concluded it was occupation from western forces, amoung other things. There was a big academic study a while back which reached the same conclusion:

Ah, so a religion of peace. I live a few miles from George W Bush...I'm sure he would love to hear you agree with him.

Oh and btw....I never said ONLY