New Dermaroller Study; Thoughts, comments?

[Sparky4444]

Squeegee is the ying, the rest of us are the yang...its through challenging each other that there will be a breakthrough!!

Get your *** back here 'Rambo..just change your Avatar...I kid, I kid!!!

 

[jason5]

@jason5: All the terminal hair in the middle of your crown, are those new or are they "survivors" of your male pattern baldness?

I took a better look at my hair and it seems I have 3 different types of hair. Strong terminal hairs which you can see in the picture, tons and tons of new vellus hairs which cannot be easily seen and then I have militarized semi-terminal hairs in-between the thick hairs that you can see.

What I'm noticing is those semi-terminal hairs are getting a tiny touch thicker and darker. If all my semi-terminal hair get much more thicker then I may just get the appearance of a full head of hair again (minus my left temple which is quite bare). I'm not using finasteride, only minoxidil and regenepure.

So to answer your question, I would say 90% of those are survivors but I'm seeing changed in them towards slight thickness.

 

[squeegee]

9 weeks in.. coming off a shed..

 

[Sparky4444]

9 weeks in.. coming off a shed..

In my mind, your results proves the science works...for a home-based application to produce freakin' hair to grow in 9 weeks is cosmic when compared to finasteride and minoxidil s-h-i-t...and all the other s-h-i-t...this basically makes all the other forums on this site useless, except for the hair transplant forum...it makes ALL the other THREADS in this forum completely a waste of time -- unless they are derivatives of this approach --- jizz or no jizz lol!!

I kid, I kid...

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...and for me, this proves that Follica will work and it will be the next big thing...combined with Dr. Wesley's new approach to FUE, the days of being completely bald will be over for most men

 

[squeegee]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0738081X07001903
http://www.burnsjournal.com/article/S0305-4179(09)00566-X/abstract

"If you don't bleed, you won't get the results and that is the part that most people aren't willing to do!" pointed out Dr Desmond Fernandes, who has written numerous papers for medical publications on various plastic surgery procedures, methods of improved penetration and skin needling for collagen stimulation. Naturally, when the blood vessel is pricked, it causes bleeding and this releases the platelet cells inside the blood that carry a mechanism to clot up blood vessels. At the same time, it carries out a lot of growth factors.
http://www.mtsroller.com/timeless-skin/

"When you injure skin tissue, the platelets release growth factors for the skin to heal. It promotes more collagen and elastin. We found that Transforming growth factor beta-3 molecule helps tissue to regenerate instead of scar. When you needle skin, there is a surge of TGFB3. Normally, if we cut the skin, the TGFB3 lasts 24 hours, but when you needle skin there is a surge for two weeks." he said.

The guy is a pioneer of the derma rolling business and one of the top plastic surgeon.

http://www.drdes.co.za/

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[FONT=&amp]When you (for example) prick your skin you mechanically damage some skin cells. Those cells are too damaged to function properly and our body will immediately start removing those cells.It is the job of our immune system to remove pathogens, damaged cells etc.The capillaries will dilate and the whole area will get red from increased blood flow full of white blood cells and other cells that will be very busy, removing the damaged tissue and the growth of new cells will be triggered. Blood proteins will flood the area and that will cause swelling, the skin will get warmer than normal and will be painful.Inflammation is a sign that wound healing is in progress.Inflammation is caused by our own immune system. If our immune system didn't "flood" the area and didn't cause inflammation, our wounds would not heal.When you roll your skin, you induce inflammation (which is an immune protective response in order to fix the injury) but you should not get infection (bacterial or other contamination of the wound).[/FONT] [FONT=&amp]Acute inflammation ceases when the acute injury is fixed and the damaged cells are removed. It takes a few hours (after dermarolling) and up to a few days (after deep single needling) but of course it depends on how deep and dense your pricks are etc. Basically, when the signs of inflammation (redness, swelling, increased heat, pain) are completely gone then the inflammation process is completed.It doesn't mean though that you should roll immediately when the inflammation from the previous rolling is gone. For reasons that are very complex, it is undesirable to have a more or less continuous state of inflammation of the skin. It is certainly not beneficial to your skin.You have to give your skin time to completely regenerate and give your skin time to complete several stages of collagen production (from collagen III to collagen I etc). The tissue remodelling can take months


[/FONT]The advantage of dermarolling compared to those other methods is that it doesn’t remove the outermost layer of skin and there is no danger of burns and other thermal damage.Wound healing has 3 stages - Inflammation, proliferation and remodeling.Inflammation is a reaction of our body to heal the injury.During the inflammation stage, the blood vessels dilate, resulting in an increased blood flow to the area. The area becomes red and warm. Plasma fluids will flood the area and cause swelling. When the immune system cleans the area of damaged cells, the damaged cells will be replaced by new ones.The skin consists of 3 layers. The epidermis, the dermis and subdermis.The epidermis has no blood supply. The dermis has irregular blood vessels and the deeper the dermis the more blood vessels. If you puncture a blood vessel you end up with pinpoint bleeding or even bruises.The more damage in the dermis you cause, the more remodeling you will get. For home use, it is much safer to do several rolling sessions with occasional pinpoint bleeding than one "totally bloody" to obtain the same results. Especially if you roll large areas.If your achieve inflammation (your skin temporarily becoming red after dermarolling), the process of skin renewal has been triggered. That is all you need and you have to regularly repeat it to get results. Your expectations must be realistic. Currently there is no method to completely remove scars, stretch marks, significantly change the pore size or texture of your skin or stop the aging process. A lot of it is determined by hereditary factors. You can achieve improvements though.

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23960389
A randomized evaluator blinded study of effect of microneedling in androgenetic alopecia: a pilot study.

Dhurat R, Sukesh M, Avhad G, Dandale A, Pal A, Pund P.
Source

Department of Dermatology, L.T.M. Medical College and General Hospital, Sion, Mumbai, Maharashtra, India.

Abstract

INTRODUCTION:

Dermal papilla (DP) is the site of expression of various hair growth related genes. Various researches have demonstrated the underlying importance of Wnt proteins and wound growth factors in stimulating DP associated stem cells. Microneedling works by stimulation of stem cells and inducing activation of growth factors.
MATERIALS AND METHODS:

Hundred cases of mild to moderate (III vertex or IV) androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia) were recruited into 2 groups. After randomization one group was offered weekly microneedling treatment with twice daily 5% minoxidil lotion (Microneedling group); other group was given only 5% minoxidil lotion. After baseline global photographs, the scalp were shaved off to ensure equal length of hair shaft in all. Hair count was done in 1 cm(2) targeted fixed area (marked with tattoo) at baseline and at end of therapy (week 12). The 3 primary efficacy parameters assessed were: Change from baseline hair count at 12 weeks, patient assessment of hair growth at 12 weeks, and investigator assessment of hair growth at 12 weeks. A blinded investigators evaluated global photographic response. The response was assessed by 7- point scale.
RESULTS:

(1) Hair counts - The mean change in hair count at week 12 was significantly greater for the Microneedling group compared to the Minoxidil group (91.4 vs 22.2 respectively). (2) Investigator evaluation - Forty patients in Microneedling group had +2 to +3 response on 7-point visual analogue scale, while none showed the same response in the Minoxidil group. (3) Patient evaluation - In the Microneedling group, 41 (82%) patients reported more than 50% improvement versus only 2 (4.5%) patients in the Minoxidil group. Unsatisfied patients to conventional therapy for Androgenetic Alopecia got good response with Microneedling treatment.
CONCLUSION:

Dermaroller along with Minoxidil treated group was statistically superior to Minoxidil treated group in promoting hair growth in men with Androgenetic Alopecia for all 3 primary efficacy measures of hair growth. Microneedling is a safe and a promising tool in hair stimulation and also is useful to treat hair loss refractory to Minoxidil therapy.

 

[DesperateOne]

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0738081X07001903
http://www.burnsjournal.com/article/S0305-4179%2809%2900566-X/abstract

"If you don't bleed, you won't get the results and that is the part that most people aren't willing to do!" pointed out Dr Desmond Fernandes, who has written numerous papers for medical publications on various plastic surgery procedures, methods of improved penetration and skin needling for collagen stimulation. Naturally, when the blood vessel is pricked, it causes bleeding and this releases the platelet cells inside the blood that carry a mechanism to clot up blood vessels. At the same time, it carries out a lot of growth factors.
http://www.mtsroller.com/timeless-skin/

"When you injure skin tissue, the platelets release growth factors for the skin to heal. It promotes more collagen and elastin. We found that Transforming growth factor beta-3 molecule helps tissue to regenerate instead of scar. When you needle skin, there is a surge of TGFB3. Normally, if we cut the skin, the TGFB3 lasts 24 hours, but when you needle skin there is a surge for two weeks." he said.

The guy is a pioneer of the derma rolling business and one of the top plastic surgeon.

http://www.drdes.co.za/

- - - Updated - - -

[FONT=&amp]When you (for example) prick your skin you mechanically damage some skin cells. Those cells are too damaged to function properly and our body will immediately start removing those cells.It is the job of our immune system to remove pathogens, damaged cells etc.The capillaries will dilate and the whole area will get red from increased blood flow full of white blood cells and other cells that will be very busy, removing the damaged tissue and the growth of new cells will be triggered. Blood proteins will flood the area and that will cause swelling, the skin will get warmer than normal and will be painful.Inflammation is a sign that wound healing is in progress.Inflammation is caused by our own immune system. If our immune system didn't "flood" the area and didn't cause inflammation, our wounds would not heal.When you roll your skin, you induce inflammation (which is an immune protective response in order to fix the injury) but you should not get infection (bacterial or other contamination of the wound).[/FONT] [FONT=&amp]Acute inflammation ceases when the acute injury is fixed and the damaged cells are removed. It takes a few hours (after dermarolling) and up to a few days (after deep single needling) but of course it depends on how deep and dense your pricks are etc. Basically, when the signs of inflammation (redness, swelling, increased heat, pain) are completely gone then the inflammation process is completed.It doesn't mean though that you should roll immediately when the inflammation from the previous rolling is gone. For reasons that are very complex, it is undesirable to have a more or less continuous state of inflammation of the skin. It is certainly not beneficial to your skin.You have to give your skin time to completely regenerate and give your skin time to complete several stages of collagen production (from collagen III to collagen I etc). The tissue remodelling can take months


[/FONT]The advantage of dermarolling compared to those other methods is that it doesn’t remove the outermost layer of skin and there is no danger of burns and other thermal damage.Wound healing has 3 stages - Inflammation, proliferation and remodeling.Inflammation is a reaction of our body to heal the injury.During the inflammation stage, the blood vessels dilate, resulting in an increased blood flow to the area. The area becomes red and warm. Plasma fluids will flood the area and cause swelling. When the immune system cleans the area of damaged cells, the damaged cells will be replaced by new ones.The skin consists of 3 layers. The epidermis, the dermis and subdermis.The epidermis has no blood supply. The dermis has irregular blood vessels and the deeper the dermis the more blood vessels. If you puncture a blood vessel you end up with pinpoint bleeding or even bruises.The more damage in the dermis you cause, the more remodeling you will get. Nevertheless it is also connected to a higher risk of scarring, infection or hyperpigmentation. For home use, it is much safer to do several rolling sessions with occasional pinpoint bleeding than one "totally bloody" to obtain the same results. Especially if you roll large areas.If your achieve inflammation (your skin temporarily becoming red after dermarolling), the process of skin renewal has been triggered. That is all you need and you have to regularly repeat it to get results. Your expectations must be realistic. Currently there is no method to completely remove scars, stretch marks, significantly change the pore size or texture of your skin or stop the aging process. A lot of it is determined by hereditary factors. You can achieve improvements though.

So I am assuming he means Vitamin A and C orally? Also, this guy might be onto something but I think it's important to point out that all his method are proven to work against aging and not directly for male pattern baldness.

 

[squeegee]

So I am assuming he means Vitamin A and C orally? Also, this guy might be onto something but I think it's important to point out that all his method are proven to work against aging and not directly for male pattern baldness.

You can call Androgen Alopecia accelerated aging! Retinoic Acid,Vitamins A topically, promotes collagen production so is Vitaminc C internally. But all I care about to know is the more your bleed , better the results! He also suggesting a 3.0mm. I tried Retinoic acid back in the days..that stuff is acidic and burn the **** out of the skin. You have to be really smart with it.. Would like to try it with the derma roller but hesitant. Probably going to keep simple.

 

[theRA]

You can call Androgen Alopecia accelerated aging! Retinoic Acid,Vitamins A topically, promotes collagen production so is Vitaminc C internally. But all I care about to know is the more your bleed , better the results! He also suggesting a 3.0mm. I tried Retinoic acid back in the days..that stuff is acidic and burn the **** out of the skin. You have to be really smart with it.. Would like to try it with the derma roller but hesitant. Probably going to keep simple.

have you tried your 3.0 yet squeegee? any experience?

 

[Bombarie]

princessrambo! Come back

 

[TNTS]

For home use, it is much safer to do several rolling sessions with occasional pinpoint bleeding than one "totally bloody" to obtain the same results. Especially if you roll large areas

squeegee, about this,i guess you are in the second, totally bloody session; but in a combination of the first sessions also?
I confused....

 

[theRA]

princessrambo! Come back

and create a thread "From Norwood 6 to 2 - A how to guide" ! no but seriously.... do it!!!! lol It could even top this one

 

[isishearmyplea]

yea rambo come back, that avatar was from my favorite episode and on a serious note science has always progressed with a dialectical approach & so shall this forum with your valuable inputs alongwith others.

 

[bushbush]

9 weeks in.. coming off a shed..

Do you have baseline pictures?

 

[jason5]

Come back Rambo, I'm sure if we the people voted, we know who should have gotten banned. It's such a shame to lose so much important data and experimentation due to an idiot troll (The admins should really have dealt with him earlier). Oh well, I guess hatred wins now unless you come back.

 

[Cody1212]

I was speaking with Dr. Bauman about dermarolling and he was very excited about it, the only real input he said was to try and use a dermapen because it won't pull on the other hair follicles. I looked them up, they are rather expensive. If they were comparable in price to the rollers I would have tried but not at a few hundred dollars. Any thoughts?

 

[Bombarie]

Squeegee and princess are both The Kings of this forum!

 

[Cody1212]

You know what, it's probably not necessary to even consider a dermapen. I just dermarolled hard with a 1.5 and not one hair fell out. When I started this I had several hairs falling out and it left me concerned but after a few weeks no hairs falling. This really works guys!

My only other question is I haven't been able to use minoxidil in the past, it is either the pg or alcohol that just irritates the heck out of my skin and causes my hair to look worse after using it for a few weeks. I would love to use it in conjunction with DR, do you think a once a day application with foam (which doesn't have Pg) might help or just use some other hair growth promoter?

 

[ganonford]

Squeegee and princess are both The Kings of this forum!

The king of dark and the king of light...

 

[Jacob]

I was speaking with Dr. Bauman about dermarolling and he was very excited about it, the only real input he said was to try and use a dermapen because it won't pull on the other hair follicles. I looked them up, they are rather expensive. If they were comparable in price to the rollers I would have tried but not at a few hundred dollars. Any thoughts?

Shop around. Just a couple of examples:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DR-SKINCARE...amp-Pen-0-25mm-2-5mm-With-Pouch-/281175541848

http://www.amazon.com/Signswise-Nee...d=1380644357&sr=1-14&keywords=microneedle+pen

Keep in mind some may come with extra needles..etc.

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You know what, it's probably not necessary to even consider a dermapen. I just dermarolled hard with a 1.5 and not one hair fell out. When I started this I had several hairs falling out and it left me concerned but after a few weeks no hairs falling. This really works guys!

While there are other reasons one may want to go with a dermapen..I think what the Dr. you mentioned above was referring to was not necessarily just pulling hairs out, but also tugging at/loosening them to possibly fall out later etc. It may be nothing to worry about, but I think that's what he's getting at.

 

[Breaking Bald]

Do you have baseline pictures?

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