"A woman can't be in a relationship with a guy she doesn't find physically attractive

[Afro_Vacancy]

I really doubt that a good-looking guy can get away with being a nazi, he'd be limited to dating neo-nazi chicks.

But the general point remains that the more good-looking a person is (both men and women), the more allowance they have for "errors" and other general failings. I think this is quite simple from a game perspective. If you bring in a lot of item A, you don't need to bring in as much of item B.

 

[Rudiger]

Of course, no doubt, if I feel a woman is instantly receptive to me, I can get away with saying some poor jokes, even distasteful stuff she would normally disagree with, and it's not like I decide to make **** jokes, I just feel comfortable enough that this deal is done, I can say whatever I want- and then her reaction reminds me that this isn't the case.

However, if a woman isn't interested from the start, I know I need to say everything right, have a witty advance and story for everything she says, to gain any ground. It's not even a case of putting a foot wrong, it's about putting every foot right, and from there it's about 50/50 whether I get with her or not.

Regardless, personality is definitely a factor in attraction, even in brief conversation. I know Fred speaks about this as an expert, but I really doubt he knows what he's talking about, and it annoys me that reasonable people take little chunks of his arguments and believe it more and more, because he acts like an expert.

 

[xetudor]

One of my friends just told me he wants to break up with this girl that likes him. He said he tried but can't do it. This is a guy that a few months ago was complaining he's lonely and there is nobody who loves him. He's not even handsome or anything and yet he can't even have a relationship if he's not attracted.

Just because some people form a "couple" for a while it doesn't mean they had a relationship.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

h.l.,

What exactly are you arguing?

Are you disagreeing with Fred's thesis that looks are ~100% of attraction, and advocating that it's only ~50%? That's not an awful point to make it, but it does seem silly to keep going back and forth over it for endless months on an internet hairloss forum. Regardless of whether or not looks are everything or merely extremely important, the final advice remains the same. We should all invest into improving our appearance where it is feasible to do so.

 

[Rudiger]

It's definitely silly, but for whatever reason a lot of people think Fred's opinions are sound advice, and when you break it down, to the bare basics of what he's saying, it makes no sense.

I wouldn't put a percentage on it for now, but 50% based on personality even seems a bit strong, taking into consideration that women care a lot about how other girls view their man, their family etc. I'd say looks are more than 50%.

I don't understand what you're wondering I'm arguing about though? I'm reacting to what he's saying, I'm not even saying that Fred is completely wrong in all aspects, in a lot of ways he's completely right and somewhat perceptive, to give him credit, but then he pushes too far.

So I don't know exactly what I'm arguing in these last posts on a general basis, there's a few different ideas going on right now, I've expressed some and listened to some, but I can clarify anything you want.

 

[Rudiger]

Regardless of whether or not looks are everything or merely extremely important, the final advice remains the same. We should all invest into improving our appearance where it is feasible to do so.

A further thought from this, of course, and this doesn't just include attracting women, but appearance is an important representation of who we are. And Fred, as well as others, claim that baldness is the end of you.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Of course, no doubt, if I feel a woman is instantly receptive to me, I can get away with saying some poor jokes, even distasteful stuff she would normally disagree with, and it's not like I decide to make **** jokes, I just feel comfortable enough that this deal is done, I can say whatever I want- and then her reaction reminds me that this isn't the case.

However, if a woman isn't interested from the start, I know I need to say everything right, have a witty advance and story for everything she says, to gain any ground. It's not even a case of putting a foot wrong, it's about putting every foot right, and from there it's about 50/50 whether I get with her or not.

Regardless, personality is definitely a factor in attraction, even in brief conversation. I know Fred speaks about this as an expert, but I really doubt he knows what he's talking about, and it annoys me that reasonable people take little chunks of his arguments and believe it more and more, because he acts like an expert.

I've been there whee a woman rejected me and I tried and tried and eventually succeeded in getting her to like me. I've also been in other situations where I tried and tried and it led nowhere.

I'll acknowledge that it's correct, it's true that an initial rejection by a woman can eventually be overcome by successful "wooing" or "game" or whatever you want to call it. I'm not sure it undermines the general thesis though. I had to struggle to get that girl for ~1.5 years, and be nearly perfect for that entire period. I did so because I was in love with her, and thus in practice I had no choice. I took a statistics course just to be in the same course as her. I would coordinate when to get haircuts, wear new clothes for the first time, when to send an email or phone call, et cetera. It was a huge amount of work, and eventually it paid off. Mind you I also ... lost a whole lot of weight. I eventually had a decent relationship with her, but this is one success in the context of many other failures.

What I think this was in the context of this discussion was a mild rather than an overwhelming rejection to overcome in the first place. Emotions are complex, they are not binary. A woman may not feel "aye" or "naye" but a spectrum in between, and if you're barely in the "naye" column there is some possibility for you to manoeuvre and to subsequently impress.

In my life I've dealt with weight gain, mediocre body composition, yellow and slightly crooked teeth, bad hair, glasses, dark skin, and so on. I have no doubt that this has put me at a handycap. I've been in situations where other guys put up very marginal effort and either score, or decline to score because they have better options. I have no doubt that this matters in women picking men, and also the other way around. I find it offensive and problematic that anybody would deny this.

 

[Rudiger]

No girl has ever decided to have sex with a guy because she found him funny at the party.

This happens all the time. You just keep trying to block it out of your mind, because it doesn't suit your vision of the world, but it definitely happens. I've known so many handsome guys who get nowhere because they're shy, and even when women want it, they don't know what to do, these guys end up having a few partners in their life because of their own awkwardness.

Meanwhile there's plenty of idiots who are exhibitionists and uninhibited who just say whatever the hell they want, and women respond to that, women who should do better.

 

[Rudiger]

I've been there whee a woman rejected me and I tried and tried and eventually succeeded in getting her to like me. I've also been in other situations where I tried and tried and it led nowhere.

I'll acknowledge that it's correct, it's true that an initial rejection by a woman can eventually be overcome by successful "wooing" or "game" or whatever you want to call it. I'm not sure it undermines the general thesis though. I had to struggle to get that girl for ~1.5 years, and be nearly perfect for that entire period. I did so because I was in love with her, and thus in practice I had no choice. I took a statistics course just to be in the same course as her. I would coordinate when to get haircuts, wear new clothes for the first time, when to send an email or phone call, et cetera. It was a huge amount of work, and eventually it paid off. Mind you I also ... lost a whole lot of weight. I eventually had a decent relationship with her, but this is one success in the context of many other failures.

What I think this was in the context of this discussion was a mild rather than an overwhelming rejection to overcome in the first place. Emotions are complex, they are not binary. A woman may not feel "aye" or "naye" but a spectrum in between, and if you're barely in the "naye" column there is some possibility for you to manoeuvre and to subsequently impress.

In my life I've dealt with weight gain, mediocre body composition, yellow and slightly crooked teeth, bad hair, glasses, dark skin, and so on. I have no doubt that this has put me at a handycap. I've been in situations where other guys put up very marginal effort and either score, or decline to score because they have better options. I have no doubt that this matters in women picking men, and also the other way around. I find it offensive and problematic that anybody would deny this.

That's a huge amount of effort and must have been something to get through, but I was simply talking about picking up, I might be wrong here but I thought that's the context we were discussing.

 

[xetudor]

This happens all the time.

Really? Would you have sex with a woman you find very unattractive just because she tells funny jokes? If not then why do you think woman are different?

 

[Rudiger]

VERY unattractive? No, but a girl I wouldn't normally find that appealing, who is funny and applies herself, yes I've done that plenty of times. For most people, from there you could even start a relationship, based on having the same sense of humour.

- - - Updated - - -

I've never claimed that. Was it the end of me? I still graduated, traveled, had girlfriend and lived an overall happy life as a bald man.

The balding process was harder mentally than to actually be bald, but being actually bald made it harder socially and romantically.

When you're balding, you're constantly thinking "when I get there, it's going to be the end of the world!" then you see that it's not as bad as you expected.

The mental anguish you felt between NW2 and NW5 remains real of course.

Once you're bald, all you get is (way) more rejections from women, mockeries in public, and just less respect from people in general.

If these don't completely crush you mentally, you can still live a decent life.



I'm going to do my Fred: you don't know these women are responding to their great sense of humour and personality.

They're actually responding to their looks. Yes, they just find those extrovert guys hot, so everything they do and say seems so funny and awesome.

Come on now, I've said it before: I'm the guy who's shy, awkward, who never says much at parties or in public, yet I've still gotten girls quite easily behaving like that.

How many times have I seen the shorter and uglier extrovert guy trying to win the girl that was already all over me only to have her roll her eyes while smiling at me.

We've all seen this. At least if we observe our surroundings.

Story time:

I remember being on this boat in Iceland with a NW4 short NW4 guy who was really funny and interesting.

My friends and I had a good time talking to him. There was also this tall NW1 quiet guy with a long face. We found him weird. "Why won't he talk? What a downer he is!"

There was a also a pretty French girl with them, and during the whole trip on the boat, we thought: "She must be the girlfriend of the cool short NW4 guy!"

Well, at a point, we saw her making out with the tall, good-looking, boring to death one. It's sad, but that's how it is.

If that short NW4 guy had been the one making out with the girl, we wouldn't be hearing about this story, you would have blocked it out.

 

[Rudiger]

"Women are less visual bro! I have no proof of this, but I've seen a lot of PUA websites mention this so I think it's true!"

Strawman alert! Who said this? Someone in your mind?

Ironically you have no proof of this, definitely not people on here at least. If you're going to start using youtuber comments on PUA videos then OK, but nobody cares. It's irrelevant. We all know those guys are reaching for clarity, just like you, but in different ways.

 

[Rudiger]

And now you choose to bring it up? Quote the guy, face it, don't try and pretend this is a general viewpoint of any normal reasonable man.

 

[Rudiger]

You like to argue. At least I illustrate with real examples.

You're just making up suppositions that suit your way of thinking.

But I understand, a bit of delusion is important to keep your sanity.

I can think of many different anecdote's that both support and falsify everything I write on here, but it's mainly irrelevant. The main thing is consistency, and you claim that you never see a bald guy pulling, you hate being pressed on the issue (despite you being a bald guy who allegedly pulled).

-The bias is clear.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

http://appolsaucy.tumblr.com/post/81783935612/dear-men-a-guide-to-online-dating

Dear Men: A Guide to Online Dating

The way our dating culture translates online, guys send out a ton of messages to women and get very few replies. This can be disheartening, I know. On the flip side, women get inundated with so many messages that we don’t have time to send out our own, so it becomes a negative experience of constantly rejecting people. This is also disheartening.
If the woman you messaged didn’t respond to you, don’t take it personally. Maybe she just doesn’t feel like dating right now. Or maybe her plate is full. Maybe she’s busy at work. Maybe she noticed something on your profile that was a deal breaker and didn’t think it was worth it to shoot you a message saying “Sorry, I don’t date people who don’t like bacon,†because what follows after that is five increasingly irate messages from you explaining to her why she SHOULD want to date people who don’t like bacon. Don’t take it personally when she decides to skip that.
HOWEVER, there might be some problem areas on your profile or your message that are turning off a lot of women. Here is a helpful list of things that make me extremely disinclined to respond to men on dating sites:

1. You don’t have a picture of yourself. Maybe you don’t put it up because you don’t want women judging you based on your looks. First of all, friend, your fear is unfounded–women are conditioned from birth to accept men regardless of their looks. Men are much more likely to reject a woman based on her appearance, trust me. Second of all, and most importantly, going out to meet a strange man alone is a dangerous thing for a woman to do. I don’t want your picture so I can judge you–I want your picture so that when I don’t phone in the next day my friend has a description for the police.
2. The acceptable age range you listed skews way younger than you. The majority of men I’ve seen on dating sites who are ~30 years old list their desired women as being 20-31 years old. If you seriously think you have tons in common with a 20 year old woman and nothing in common with a 33 year old woman, you are delusional, and I don’t have time for your nonsense.
3. One of the first and only things you said was about my appearance. I’m sorry the system taught you that women will be transfixed by shallow, ultimately meaningless compliments. The system was wrong. Adapt or stay single forever.
4. You offered to teach me something. You’re already condescending to me in your first message, really? I’m sorry the system taught you that women want their partners to be father figures. The system was wrong. Adapt or stay single forever.
5. You didn’t fill out the personality questionnaire. Maybe you think they’re dumb. Okay. Those questions don’t define your personality, but here are some things they do define: your stance on whether the man should be the head of the household; your stance on abortion; your stance on how many people women should be able to sleep with; your stance on drugs; your stance on religion in science classrooms; your stance on what jobs are acceptable for women to hold. These are the bare minimum criteria for people I will communicate with–you have to pass this AND have a good personality.
6. You put yourself down a lot. It’s okay to be insecure, but to push it on someone before you’ve even met properly indicates that this is going to be the chronic state of things. Your first message sets the tone for the relationship, and what I’m getting is that you’re going to take and take and take from me. Learn to take care of yourself first so you can give back to your partner.
7. You said, “I don’t like to message on here so text me if you want to talk.†A.) Don’t be pushy and tell women what to do. Let her set her own comfort zone, because B.) giving your phone number to strange men is a straight line to sexual harassment. It doesn’t matter if YOU would never do that–plenty of other men have before and will again.
8. You said, “I don’t like to message on here so let’s meet up in person." A.) Don’t be pushy and tell women what to do. Let her set her own comfort zone, because B.) going out to meet a strange man alone is a dangerous thing for a woman to do.

I hope this list will help you jump back into online dating with a new understanding of how other people interpret your words and actions and a new sense of empathy for what women deal with on dating sites. Blessings on your crops and may your herds prosper.

 

[Rudiger]

I hear it very often in real life.

Truth is, you hear it very rarely in real life, maybe sometimes from deluded guys talking about billionaires who pull supermodels, and you picked the strawman from that.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

What I copied and pasted above is an example of the anti-Fred, which is the predominant piece of advice to men. It gives men 10 pieces of advice in how to better attract women in online dating --- absolutely every piece of advice conceivable except take a better photo and work on being better in photos.

 

[xetudor]

What I copied and pasted above is an example of the anti-Fred, which is the predominant piece of advice to men. It gives men 10 pieces of advice in how to better attract women in online dating --- absolutely every piece of advice conceivable except take a better photo and work on being better in photos.

The author has some serious victim complex. It's like men are out there to oppress her. Men are also "dangerous".

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

The author has some serious victim complex. It's like men are out there to oppress her. Men are also "dangerous".

It's a good representation of the advice most of the internet offers men. I'd say 45% of the advice is from men selling expensive guides to confidence and bogus supplements, and the other 45% from men instructing men on how to walk away silently with their heads down if a woman is not interested, which you're supposed to know prior to ever talking to her.

 

[Rudiger]

Out of my 60+ first dates,

Well that number went down quick, do the other 40 not count any more? Are you losing track of your lies?