We killed Bin Laden! f*** your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

This is the kind of inequality that flourishes in Muslim based societies/theocracies- http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_saudi_women_driving

And yes I know they are our allies....

Would it have been right for another country to force the US to give women the right to vote, or to stop using capital punishment?

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

This is the kind of inequality that flourishes in Muslim based societies/theocracies- http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ml_saudi_women_driving

And yes I know they are our allies....

Would it have been right for another country to force the US to give women the right to vote, or to stop using capital punishment?

I wouldn't compare executing a child raping and murdering scumbag, to taking away the basic rights of women........

And, the example that I posted is just one of many social injustices that flourish in those types of countries....

I'll ask again. Before the US gave women the right to vote, would it have been ok for another country to force you to do so? Please answer the question this time.

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

You guys are like broken records. Come up against a point or question you cannot answer or refute and fall back to accusing me of hating the US. Followed by a little bit of childish bravado.

Utterly ridiculous. Finfighter why start a political thread if you are completely unwilling to participate in such a discussion rationally?

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

On top of that there is this very common theme in your posts, that might equals right. Is that truly what you believe? That if noone can stop you doing it then accountability goes out the window?

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

1. You've not answered the question.

2. A rational discussion involves answering the points a person makes, not constantly attacking the poster and making baseless accusations.

3. If the answer to my question was 'But to answer your question, I would like to see them try, ' then you are absolutely saying that might equals right.

I'm not getting emotional, a forum discussion is not capable of making me emotional. I am simply pointing out the problems in the way you are conducting yourself, specifically that rather than discussing points, you make accusations. Ad hominem attacks are not acceptable.

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

1. You've not answered the question.

I make it a practice not to answer loaded questions :whistle: Yet this spurs attacks from you, yet I'm the one making attacks, according to you, right?

If you read my response you will see that I explained that your question wasn't comparable so I wouldn't anwer it. Get it?

It is not a loaded question at all. A loaded question is "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?".

Do you think the US has the right to go in and force womens rights on Saudi Arabia? Yes or no?

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Do you think the US has the right to go in and force womens rights on Saudi Arabia? Yes or no?

Really, you couldn't determine my answer from the inflection of my previous post?

Well to answer your question- No, in the case of a womens driving rights, of course not!!!! But in the case of a Muslim countries/theocracies where they execute women for cheating(for one example) Hell yeah! Can you not differentiate between severity of abuse, and need for intervention?

Nope, that's why I asked. Always a bad idea, trying to assume/guess another's position. Like saying I hate the US

Here is where it gets tricky for you finfighter. If you forcibly invade a country to save those women who might be executed, you'll undoubtedly cause a lot of death, definitely more death than the executions themselves.

So is that really the best course of action?

But beyond that, what I am trying to point out, is that there is no black and white here.

Lets imagine that there is a country with greater military capacity than your own, a country that utterly despises any sort of capital punishment. By your rationale, that country would have the right, even the obligation, to forcibly stop your country from using capital punishment.

Obviously as a US citizen, that would outrage you no end, that another country would interfere with the running of your own. Yet the parallel is obvious.

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Here is where it gets tricky for you finfighter. If you forcibly invade a country to save those women who might be executed, you'll undoubtedly cause a lot of death, definitely more death than the executions themselves.

Surely you understand the idea, of implementing a new direction for the future, that will surpass casualties of war through a military action, also the casualties will idealy, primarily consist of those who are inforcing such unjust laws, not those who are suffering at their consequence.

For all we know they might be 15 years away from getting to that point all by themselves. Then the casualties of invasion would far outweigh the benefit. Considering very few women each year are executed, (online sources tell me the worst year was 7 women, usually 2-3) then they'd probably have to be 500+ years away from getting there themselves before invasion casualties would be less than execution casualties.

But again the question becomes, why is it assumed that your country has the right to alter the course of another society?

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Lets imagine that there is a country with greater military capacity than your own, a country that utterly despises any sort of capital punishment. By your rationale, that country would have the right, even the obligation, to forcibly stop your country from using capital punishment.

I find this comparison, to be beyond bad taste, not only is it completely incosequential but it is also repulsive and it lacks a hint of common sense, It's really just a gross comparison at best. If you can't grasp this then there is no point in us continuing this conversation.


You are comparing something indisputably wrong- execution based based on accused infidelity, VS. Execution of a convicted murderer, there's no comparsion here dude! Get real!

And I do refuse to dignify such a comment with a further response,.

Do you not understand that 'wrong' is a subjective term? That while you can find an execution because of infidelity wrong, but not one of a criminal, it is quite possible that someone else might think that while the first is absolutely horrendous, both are completely unacceptable?

I could have just as easily used meat eating as an example. ie/ Country more powerful than yours reveres cows and cannot tolerate them being used for food, thinks it is the most evil thing ever. Forcibly stops you from eating cow. Understand the point yet?

I'm going to ignore the rest of your insults and ask again that you consider the hypothetical situation as presented, from a logical rather than emotional perspective.

 

[HughJass]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

I have already stated many times, take out the USA equation and you will still have chaos in the region,

but will they still want to attack America? That is the issue, not whether or not the ME will still be in a state of chaos with outside interference or not.

The hatred is in-bread (for a lack of a better word) for 2 thousand plus years, get it now?

The muslim's have hated the US for two thousand years? Is this what you are saying?

The only difference is you won't have the USA there protecting Israel and their tiny little sliver of land. So stop blaming the USA or the foreign policies, I think any brave soul who gets evolved in all that middle east stuff giving monetary aid and soldiers life's to protect democracy in one small sliver of land deserves a medal and all you can do is criticize and sensationalize we are bombing millions of children etc.

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I have no idea what you are trying to say. You aren't actually addressing any of the points I'm trying to raise with you.

 

[HughJass]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

For one thing to prevent such behavior from spreading, which is the underlying goal of Islam(to spread mulsim law).

Except we know that isn't the goal of the US and it's allies in the ME. If it was we wouldn't be allied with Islamic fundamentalists in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar, Afghanistan.....


We aren't there to support secular democracy and women's rights.

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Do you not understand that 'wrong' is a subjective term? That while you can find an execution because of infidelity wrong, but not one of a criminal, it is quite possible that someone else might think that while the first is absolutely horrendous, both are completely unacceptable?

I could use the same logic, to say that eveything is subjective, everything is a mere interpretation, this goes both ways, but I find it to be a very weak argument, If you cannot understand the very basic differences in what I outlined then you have some serious issues.....There is nothing subjective about determining whether a women should be executed because of an accused infidelity, if you believe otherwise then I am further repulsed, and disappointed.....

You are (deliberately?) missing the point. If your country gets to decide what is right and wrong for other countries, then they also have the right to do so to yours.

In effect you are saying that if there was a country stronger than the US that was disgusted by any and all capital punishment, then they would have the right to forcibly stop you from executing people.

If you disagree with the above paragraph then there is a logical inconsistency in your argument. Simple as that.

There is no need to get angry or insulting by the way. This is just a discussion.

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

BTW, editing your posts, after I responded only creates confusion, for the readers......

Where have I done that? If I did it was unintentional, I often see mistakes I want to change after I hit post.

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

You changed one of your analogies to one about beef eating...

No dude I added that to a later post as an alternate example. I didn't remove the first example at all. It is still there, go back a page.

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

There is no need to get angry or insulting by the way. This is just a discussion.

Who started the insulting comments? Read the thread, who said the first insulting comment, between you and I?

THere is a difference between baseless (yes baseless) accusations of supporting AQ and Hitler or hating the US, and me calling you on repeated ad hominem attacks.

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

There is no chance of this discussion being productive. I'm out.

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

what if I called all Australians spawn of criminals?

We are

 

[HughJass]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

In fact Aussie called Americans Idiot followers,

I was referring to America's allies with that comment:

Osama got everything he wanted. He won. He lured America and it's idiot followers into two quagmires which they couldn't win and would earn the hatred of muslims worldwide.

 

[powersam]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

Which was actually referring to, among others, us Aussies

 

[Cassin]

Re: We killed Bin Laden! f*ck your Jihad! Hoorah Seals!!!!!!!!!!

what if I called all Australians spawn of criminals?

We are

Hah!!!!!!

Cheers powersam