Foreigners Views on Americans

[patagonia]

squeegee, I understand your position man... you are a soldier. You have to see things a bit diffrent from the rest of us.... still some members here have interesting views that might help you see the situation from another angle.

stay safe unk:

 

[squeegee]

squeegee, I understand your position man... you are a soldier. You have to see things a bit diffrent from the rest of us.... still some members here have interesting views that might help you see the situation from another angle.

stay safe unk:

I totally agree with you Patagonia. But this is 2009, so history is not an excuse anymore. I live for today and the future, not for the past. I met some really good people there, kids that we helped...but these same people can shoot me in the back on the next tour . The biggest misunderstanding is we have a different perception about life.

 

[Bryan]

Why can't you answer my question as to how you concluded that I 'appear' to be sympathetic to Islam?

Huh? You didn't ask me a question.

I think I know the answer:

The only reason you would ask me something so rediculous is because you, like so many others in America and even here in Australia, you seem to have been drawn into the Zionist narrative which conflates all of the current conflicts in the middle east and all of the terrorist attacks across the world and tells you that they are all the same battle with the underlying message being that you that you can't be critical of Israel and be against something like 9/11 at the same time.

You say my question is "ridiculous", and yet STILL you carefully dodge answering it.

If I answer your question I will have been sucked into the Zionist/Neocon rules of argument, rules of argument for people who have a complete disregard for history and see things in black and white.

I didn't say a word having to do with any "Zionist narrative", stupid. I asked you a simple, direct question about your feelings toward Islamic militants, and you've egregiously tap-danced around it, without giving a direct answer. I think you're starting to show your true colors.

 

[Bryan]

It goes to show how much you respect the locals. For your information, the Middle East is also known as the cradle of civilization. They gave us algebra, algorithms, medicine, astrology, geography, finance and economics, theology, architecture, chemistry, etc.

To say that those people have never done anything good for the civilization is utter ignorance.

What have they done for us lately?

 

[Hammy070]

Ask not what those countries do for you, ask what you - do to their countries.

(my twist on Kennedy) :mrgreen:

 

[Bryan]

Ask not what those countries do for you, ask what you - do to their countries.

(my twist on Kennedy) :mrgreen:

The fact that you reply just with a weak attempt at a witticism only reinforces my point!

 

[Hammy070]

The question is completely irrelevant. Mongolia hasn't done much of anything recently, would you like to bomb them too?

PS: What have YOU done lately? Or do you ride on the back of other people's achievements.

 

[Bryan]

The question is completely irrelevant.

HUH? How is it irrelevant? Another poster was pointing out some of the great scientific accomplishments of Muslim society a thousand years or more ago, so I naturally inquired about what they've done LATELY. Isn't that a reasonable question to consider, or is that little detail too embarrassing for you to think about?

Mongolia hasn't done much of anything recently, would you like to bomb them too?

Who said anything about bombing? Not me. I'm only talking about scientific accomplishment. You seem very very defensive about all this, Hammy. I wonder why.

PS: What have YOU done lately? Or do you ride on the back of other people's achievements.

Are you asking what American and Western culture in general has achieved in recent history? How much time do you have?? :mrgreen:

 

[ali777]

The question is completely irrelevant.

HUH? How is it irrelevant? Another poster was pointing out some of the great scientific accomplishments of Muslim society a thousand years or more ago, so I naturally inquired about what they've done LATELY. Isn't that a reasonable question to consider, or is that little detail too embarrassing for you to think about?

You don't read my messages very carefully, do you? Did I ever mention Islamic achievements? I was just trying to make a case that the people of the region have a rich history and culture....

Someone else made the same comments, and I specifically explained what I think of "Islam's Golden Age"...

Btw, all these Middle-East lovers/hypocrite on this very forum. You guys should all move there! So you can embrace their history everyday, living in the oldest countries ever. Maybe join the Taliban if you want. You guys should seriously think about it..

Who are the Taliban? If the Russians and the Americans didn't mess up with the internal affairs of Afghanistan in the 70s, would they exist? Was the Taliban born as a backclash to the Russian invasion and supported by the Americans? Was Afghanistan a nice and peaceful country until the global forces got involved with their affairs?

 

[HughJass]

You say my question is "ridiculous", and yet STILL you carefully dodge answering it.

That's because I won't be sucked into the bullshit narrative that underlines your question, Bryan.

Why can't you answer why it is you suspect me of supporting Islamic terrorism? Is it too hard for you to admit that the only reason you accused me of supporting militant Islam is that you have subscribed to the zionist rules of conversation where anything less than supporting Israel's version of events=terrorist sympathy?

Obviously it is.

You are so deluded by it that you cannot even see how preposterous your question is, you actually believe that questioning the Israeli version of events is grounds enough to suspect someone of terrorist sympathy "You can't be con-Israel without being pro-terrorist"

That is such an incredibly lazy thinking on your behalf Bryan. You've fallen for propaganda hook, line and sinker.The same bullshit conversational rules and witch hunt mentality which seem to have determined plenty of foreign policy in the last years

"Don't agree with removing a tyrant like Saddam? What! Then that makes you a supporter of tryanny!"

This is how simpletons speak to each other.

I think you're starting to show your true colors.

:roll:

I thought you were a smart guy Bryan. Why fall for this sorry excuse for discourse?

 

[MEANSTREET]

Hey Bryan why dont you quote me - YOU. ARE. A. NERDBOT!

 

[Bryan]

You don't read my messages very carefully, do you? Did I ever mention Islamic achievements?

No. _I_ did.

I was just trying to make a case that the people of the region have a rich history and culture.... Someone else made the same comments, and I specifically explained what I think of "Islam's Golden Age"...

Now that we've carefully established WHO used WHICH terminology, let's get back to the question I posed earlier: what have they achieved or accomplished lately?

Who are the Taliban? If the Russians and the Americans didn't mess up with the internal affairs of Afghanistan in the 70s, would they exist? Was the Taliban born as a backclash to the Russian invasion and supported by the Americans? Was Afghanistan a nice and peaceful country until the global forces got involved with their affairs?

Are you attempting to excuse the horrifying excesses of the Taliban?

 

[Bryan]

You say my question is "ridiculous", and yet STILL you carefully dodge answering it.

That's because I won't be sucked into the bullshit narrative that underlines your question, Bryan.

Why can't you answer why it is you suspect me of supporting Islamic terrorism? Is it too hard for you to admit that the only reason you accused me of supporting militant Islam is that you have subscribed to the zionist rules of conversation where anything less than supporting Israel's version of events=terrorist sympathy?

Obviously it is.

You are so deluded by it that you cannot even see how preposterous your question is, you actually believe that questioning the Israeli version of events is grounds enough to suspect someone of terrorist sympathy "You can't be con-Israel without being pro-terrorist"

You don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about. I haven't said Word One about Israel. I asked you specifically about your attitude toward certain barbaric aspects of Islam. Here's what I said before, just to jog your memory: "I'm asking you that question because you appear to be an apologist for some of the barbaric aspects of militant Islam, like cutting people's heads off, slaughtering people who try to leave Islam, hanging homosexuals, etc." Do you really think that Israeli policy has something to do with Muslim militants' penchant for indulging in those last three activities? :mrgreen:

 

[ali777]

I was just trying to make a case that the people of the region have a rich history and culture.... Someone else made the same comments, and I specifically explained what I think of "Islam's Golden Age"...

Now that we've carefully established WHO used WHICH terminology, let's get back to the question I posed earlier: what have they achieved or accomplished lately?

After the "golden era", the Middle Easterns have achieved ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Post British colonial era there was a modernisation in the region, there was a thriving middle class and people started distancing themselves from religion. However, "the modern" culture didn't do anything for the masses, and now the masses are going backwards through "Political Islam".

However, it's not all that simple. For example, the Iranian Shah and the "democratically" elect government were somehow destabilized, and this eventually lead to the revolution. Maybe, you should consider what the conditions were that lead to the revolution and the rise of the Iranian Hizbullah.

You should also consider the fact that "the West" was somehow always pro political Islam, it was a tool against the Communists. The sects and the people that are the real sponsors of the political Islam were always close to the Americans, for example the Wahhabi sect. Wikipedia states that the Wahhabi sect sponsors more than 90% of all Islamic faith expenses. That means that if there is an Islamic centre where you live, it is very likely that it is funded by them. Historically, the other tribes in the region were anti-Wahhabi but the Brits protected them in the 19th century and later gave them a country, Saudi Arabia. Unfortunately, they are stinking rich thanks to petrol and they spread their poison with their newly found riches.

Basically, the educated people in the Middle East never had the chance to thrive and put their mark on the culture. Even today, "some dark forces" are targeting Iraq's intelligentsia. Who the dark forces are, I haven't got a clue but the doctors, lecturers, engineers, etc are systematically targeted and killed. So, the next generation is even more doomed than the current generation.

Who are the Taliban? If the Russians and the Americans didn't mess up with the internal affairs of Afghanistan in the 70s, would they exist? Was the Taliban born as a backclash to the Russian invasion and supported by the Americans? Was Afghanistan a nice and peaceful country until the global forces got involved with their affairs?

Are you attempting to excuse the horrifying excesses of the Taliban?

Never!!!!! My point was that Afghanistan was trying to come to terms with being an independent country until the Russians and the Americans messed it up. I'm not defending the Taliban, I'm blaming the global forces for messing up the country.

In my opinion, if the Middle East was given a chance to restructure itself in the post British colonial era, it would have been a prosperous region again. Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Shah's Iran, Egypt, Jordan, etc were all pro-western in the past. In the last 20-30 years, culturally they are going backwards.

 

[Bryan]

Are you attempting to excuse the horrifying excesses of the Taliban?

Never!!!!! My point was that Afghanistan was trying to come to terms with being an independent country until the Russians and the Americans messed it up. I'm not defending the Taliban, I'm blaming the global forces for messing up the country.

Hey, don't include America in there with the Russians. We actually HELPED the mujahideen in their struggle against the Soviets.

 

[HughJass]

I haven't said Word One about Israel.

So, aussieavodart, I'm curious to know: despite the apparently unsavory ways that the Jews founded Israel, to what extent (if any) do you feel sympathy and empathy for militant Islam?

You are asking me that question in the context of that conflict.

Here's what I said before, just to jog your memory: "I'm asking you that question because you appear to be an apologist for some of the barbaric aspects of militant Islam, like cutting people's heads off, slaughtering people who try to leave Islam, hanging homosexuals, etc."

I'm still waiting for you to tell me on what grounds you could throw such an accusation my way Bryan. You say I appear to be an apologist- what did you read that made you reach this conclusion? If it's so apparent, then why is it so hard to answer?

 

[wesleyBelgium]

just one question :

i have seen the movie : sicko

is it really that bad : the healthcare in the USA ?

we where shocked to see this movie of michael moore...

just a question , i think the USA rocks....

 

[The Gardener]

is it really that bad : the healthcare in the USA ?

There is a wide variation in health care here.

If you work for a large corporation, your employer gives you health care insurance as part of its "pool", and this healthcare is top notch. In addition to large companies, people can get access to the excellent "pooled" health care through labor unions, or even sometimes through their university if they are students.

Then, there are some that work for small businesses, or a few large businesses that are unethically cheap (such as Wal Mart) who don't get coverage through their employer. These folks need to get their own insurance, which means that the quality of their care is dependent on how much they can afford. This coverage is all over the map... there are some people who are willing to pay a large fixed monthly payment, and in return they get outstanding coverage. There are others who cannot afford a larger payment, so they pay a smaller premium, but, when they get sick, either the coverage is limited, or if they need to get more intensive treatments they end up paying a LOT more for it.

Then, there are some people who don't have ANY health insurance. These folks end up going to government hospitals, which are characterized by long lines, slow service, and the medical staff is usually made up of university medical students. You don't get a "personal doctor" from a government hospital... you walk in, and you get service on an "a la carte" basis, and they have a sliding scale for payment. In other words, they'll make you pay what they think you can afford to pay given the nature of your illness. If you are totally broke, they will still care for you... nobody is denied health care here, but the quality of the care can vary quite widely.

 

[wesleyBelgium]

here its all the same...

everybody has great healthcare , if your ritch or dont have that kind of money

i think i pay a amount of 2OO euro a year for exellent healthcare (about 271 us dollar)
when i need medicine / doctor or hospital the healthcare pay's 80% back
there are also healthcares that cover every cost...
i actually have 2 healtcares , one from my work and one i have when i was a little boy
i dont want to give up my personal healtcare, and i cant cancel that from my work
so i have 2 for the moment , when i get sick i only can use 1 , but keeping in mind i dont wanne
work all my life where i work now, i keep my personal healthcare

when i was in the hospital with a lung-infection , i was there 2 weeks, and was 3 months at home
my healthcare payed me my hospitalcosts back and payed me the months i was home 80% of my
salaris... so i didnt lost that mutch cash... the first 2 weeks my boss payed me full , after that my
healthcare payed me 80%...

i think from that point of vieuw the usa could learn from europe...
a large amount is payed by our taksmoney, so we have a verry good healthcare system that is inexpensive
but we pay a bunch of takses , when i look at ebay , everything from usa is cheaper than here, by those takses...

 

[DavisNY]

I think we should try stopping to care that much of what is going on in Middle-East or around it .

Completely agree with you. It's not our problem, you shouldn't be there.

Seriously, Does any Country of the Middle-East did any good to the civilization at all???

It goes to show how much you respect the locals. For your information, the Middle East is also known as the cradle of civilization. They gave us algebra, algorithms, medicine, astrology, geography, finance and economics, theology, architecture, chemistry, etc.

When the Northern European tribes (people that you perceive as civilized) lived in wooden huts, got drunk, raided the neighboring tribes to rape all the women, the Middle Easterns were building some magnificent buildings that still stand today.

Genetically, the people in the Middle East are still the same people that gave us the civilization as we know it. They are the descendants of the ancient Greeks, ancient Egyptians, Biblical prophets, Leventines, Old Baldy's Armenian cousins, Jews, Arabs, Turks, Persians, Phoenicians, etc.

To say that those people have never done anything good for the civilization is utter ignorance.

very good points, one thing to keep in mind the turks are "transplants" (no pun intended) They did not originate around the mid east/ mediterranean. the were nomadic/barbaric people, and didnt arrive in the area until roughly the 11th century. Assyrians would be a more appropriate people to mention instead.

Thanks